S3 EP 48 - How a Young Engineer Discovered Oyster Farming: Matt Sweeney's journey into aquaculture

Host Kevin Cox explores the question of who will form the next generation of aquaculture farmers through a conversation with 26-year-old environmental engineer Matt Sweeney of Long Island. Sweeney describes his maritime influences, engineering career in water resources and coastal work, and burnout with bureaucratic, document-heavy work that lacked tangible impact. After taking a career break, he began volunteering and then working part-time at Sue Wicks’ Violet Cove Oyster Company, supporting oyster and sugar kelp farming, partnerships, and product development, including cosmetic research and culinary collaborations. He shares his first oyster farm experience, the industry’s supportive community, and how his technical skills fit aquaculture’s growth, while noting regulatory hurdles. Sweeney discusses Gen Z’s desire for meaningful, hands-on work, his Substack “Sweeney’s Brine” to connect consumers with local seafood, and his acceptance into The Explorers Club Blue Generation program.

00:00 Searching for Community

00:51 Meet Matt Sweeney

02:56 Long Island Roots

04:50 Engineering Career Path

06:47 Career Break to Aquaculture

07:55 Sue Wicks and Kelp

10:36 Why Oysters Matter

13:27 First Day on the Farm

16:41 Industry Epiphany

20:21 Gen Z Draw to Aquaculture

22:38 Gen Z Joins Aquaculture

24:29 Meaningful Work And Community

26:41 Launching Sweeneys Brine

29:17 Connecting Farmers And Chefs

33:11 Explorers Club Blue Generation

36:22 Rapid Fire Seafood Takes

38:15 Future Plans Kelp And Education

39:36 Best Oyster Experience

40:53 First Raw Oyster Story

41:51 Advice For Newcomers

43:43 Closing Reflections

Links:

•  Sweeney's Brine (Substack)
• Matt Sweeney on LinkedIn
• Violet Cove Oyster Co
• The Explorers Club

Credits:

Guest: Matt Sweeney

Host: Kevin Cox

Digital Deckhand: Chet Jipty

Production: OYSTER-ology Podcast

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

TRANSCRIPT: S3 EP 48 - How a Young Engineer Discovered Oyster Farming - Matt Sweeney's journey into aquaculture (prepared by Chet Jipty)

[bubbles]

Matt Sweeney: a lot of people are saying, you know, "What's next?" And people are looking for community again. My age are looking for community to meet like-minded people. And aquaculture is a phenomenal community first and foremost.

Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters, aquaculture, and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host and the food walker, Kevin Cox.

There comes a moment in almost every industry when people begin asking the same question, "Who's coming next?" In aquaculture, it's a question I've heard again and again.Who will build the next generation of farms? Who will carry forward decades of hard-earned knowledge? Who will take over for me when I'm done? And perhaps most importantly, will young people still find meaning in a life that's tied to the water? My guest today may be part of that answer. Matt Sweeney is 26 years old. He's an environmental engineer from Long Island who stepped away from a conventional career for what he simply calls a career break. What he found instead was an oyster and kelp farm, and a community of farmers, scientists, chefs, and entrepreneurs who opened the door to a world he hadn't even known existed, And this is all happening right now. Matt's story isn't of someone looking back on a lifetime in aquaculture. It's the story of someone standing at a threshold, curious enough to take the first step, humble enough to know he still has so much to learn, and discovering where that path might lead.

So open your mind to possibility and toss out all preconceived notions of a traditional career path as we hear about working as an engineer, a search for meaning, oysters, kelp, and the rich mud beneath your feet, what Gen Z-ers really want in life, learning and sharing information, and most of all, optimism for the future, with environmental engineer, writer, young explorer, and early aquaculture entrepreneur, Matt Sweeney

 [bubbles]

Kevin: Matt Sweeney, welcome to OYSTER-ology. Man, it's so great to have you here. You know, I've only learned a little bit about you recently, because you are kind of part of what I like to refer to as the new guard of oyster and aquaculture in this world that we're all in. You're younger than a lot of the farmers that have been doing this for a long time. You have new perspectives that I really wanna hear about. So welcome to OYSTER-ology.

Matt Sweeney: Hey, thanks so much, Kevin. It's a pleasure.

Kevin: I saw, some social media posts that related to a new substack that you've created, and I wanna talk about that and your involvement in, the aquaculture world and how you got in that. But before we go there, tell me a little bit about you and what led you into the world of aquaculture?

Matt Sweeney: Awesome. I grew up on Long Islands, uh, Long Island with a really thick accent, local accent. Um, but my dad's from the city. My mom's parents are from the city. I grew up right on the edge of Queens, which is the easternmost county. So, you know, I, I'm a Long Islander, but I also, grew up going to the city a lot, and I went to Manhattan College up in the Bronx, which is now Manhattan University. and I did my bachelor's in civil engineering with a minor in environmental engineering, and then I did my master's in environmental engineering.

 Um, but where my dad grew up matters too. He grew up on Jamaica Bay. He grew up in a town called Howard Beach, uh, which is more famous for being affiliated with a lot of mobsters. He grew up with, uh, a lot of the children of, of famous mobsters, quite frankly. It was an, upper middle class neighborhood, so a lot of these guys did well in their business of choice, and they moved into this new development. And It was built on a salt marsh, basically. So my dad grew up right next to a salt marsh and so him and his older brother would spend every night out there, you know, setting traps for crabs, um, you know, setting a fishing pole in, uh, all that kind of fun stuff.

So they had that maritime influence coming from where they grew up. Um, so my dad and uncle both moved to the same town, which is Floral Park. That's where I was born, So it's sort of middle of Long Island, not near the water.

But my uncle, uh, was the one who really carried that influence forward for me of the ocean, and he would take me fishing a lot when I was younger up until recently. He passed away a few years ago, but he was my big influence. You know, he'd be knocking on my door at 4:00 a.m., on a nice summer Saturday morning saying, "Let's go fishing." Uh, he had the real bug for it. And he was really a fisherman first and foremost. He wasn't a, you know, a bayman. He didn't dig clams. He didn't really catch crabs. His thing was fishing. He was really good at it. So he kept that influence alive for me throughout my young adulthood, taking me out fishing, going mostly pier fishing, some party boat fishing. So that kept the ocean influence alive in me, um, even though I'd worked in engineering for about five years in a bunch of different aspects. I worked in the public side. I worked for a local, um, department of health. We had a Bureau of Environmental Engineering. I interned there for a summer To learn about how we protect public health. My mom's actually, part of the Department of Health. She's a public health, civil servant, which is interesting because this comes back, to mean something with oysters because of all the concerns with, you know, foodborne illnesses and this stuff. So I heard about vibrio from a young age, which is rare, um- Yeah which came to be a really useful experience for me as I stepped into the shellfish aquaculture space, But, so I interned there, and then I interned for a couple private companies doing different things in environmental engineering. nothing to do with the ocean. So looking at environmental remediation of toxic waste sites in New York City, I did that as an internship with a pretty prestigious firm. So I got to know how environmental engineering connected with development and all that sort of thing. And then my longest gig was I interned during grad school and then had a full-time job after, with a water engineering company. I specifically was what you call a water resources engineer. So I started out doing design of, water treatment for drinking water, really hard and technical type of design stuff, and I really got an interesting, full experience in the environmental engineering sphere. Uh, and then toward the end of my time with that company, I was working on coastal engineering, so bringing it full circle back to the marine influence. I was really excited to be able to do that in a professional setting, So that's what I was doing in a corporate engineering sense before I left,

I had this very technical background for many years, and My dad's a plumbing and heating specialist. He had his own company, had a whole career doing that. So I also was working with my hands from a young age with, wrenches and putting pipe together. So that's sort of the story to date of where I was in engineering world. And then I took a career break. I needed to take a career break, late last summer, and at first I was just putting pause on everything and, I decided to part-time, start to dip my toes into aquaculture. And why aquaculture? I love that it was connecting me to the ocean directly. I could be on a boat or in my waders in the water. I love that it could be very part-time, which is what I needed at the time. And it was a tangible connection to the environment, and sometimes I felt that as an engineer, although you're doing these things with huge impact that helps the environment and everything, the tangible connection sometimes is lacking. A lot of it is big bureaucratic type of meetings and you know, providing 200-page documents and... Well, very important stuff, but you don't always feel the day-to-day impact of what you're doing. But this aquaculture and just being on the water, I could directly see, uh, this is what happens when I tumble an oyster. This is what happens when I clean an oyster bag. You know, it's bringing flow to the oysters. It's helping them grow. so I did that starting about late last summer, and then I've been doing that since. So it's become a really big passion of mine. So I've been working for Susan Wicks, um, Sue Wicks, Violet Cove Oyster Company, and she's got a whole cool background too. She was a WNBA star on the first New York Liberty team, But she grew up out on Long Island, with a father that was a bayman, and so she's returning to that lifestyle. For the last 10 years about, she's been an oyster farmer, and now in the last five years, she's now growing sugar kelp on her farm, and she's the only commercial sugar kelp farmer in New York State. There's a couple towns and villages that are growing it for municipal purposes, but she's the only one growing it for sale. So I've been working a couple days a week on her farm, helping her out, not just as a farmhand, not just as a deckhand, you know, helping her with that sort of thing. We've also been working together on partnerships and product development. We're trying to find more end uses for the sugar kelp because oyster, it's a pretty obvious use. You eat it, um- Yeah ... or you use it to restore a waterway.

Matt Sweeney: Um, with kelp, it's sort of you could eat it. You could use it to restore a waterway, or you could use it in something like cosmetics, fertilizer. There's lots of different uses that we've been working on. she's had a couple projects, going already. But I specifically have helped her to get some of her kelp into a college research lab for cosmetic purposes. So we've been looking into all sorts of uses for it. But her specific sugar kelp uh, it's a specific strain that has properties that are useful that other strains of seaweed don't have. So trying to figure out- Right ... how to maximize the yield from her specific strain of these compounds, and then also,

We're having the Culinary Institute come down They're gonna come down to the farm and we're gonna have one of their main seafood chefs come out on the boat, and we're gonna show him how we harvest, and send him back with some samples back to the Culinary Institute. Um, so that's kinda how I got into aquaculture.

Kevin: How many years were you doing engineering before you got into direct aquaculture work?

Matt Sweeney: Yeah, about five years. I mean, I, I graduated- Okay ... undergraduate in 2021, and I went- Right ... right into work. Um, and then grad school, I was in grad school full-time, so about five, four and a half, five years. Yep.

Kevin: When you talk about how you tend to get very removed from kinda boots on the ground, and you got 200-page documents and stuff, it does get very frustrating, doesn't it? Because you think you're doing things for the environment, but you're not having any physical connection to the environment. It's all really business So gets a little, uh, a little hollow at some point. Did you experience that kind of feeling as well?

Matt Sweeney: Absolutely.

Kevin: So okay, so you had, a ch- sounds like a very rich childhood with your dad and with your uncle, on the water. And your relationship with the water and the ocean growing up was through that. But tell me, why oysters? I mean, out on Long Island, there's so much sea life out there. There's so many finfish.There's so many crabs. I mean, Long Island is such an incredible place for seafood and fishing and all of that kind of thing. What led you into the world of oysters?

Matt Sweeney: I gotta say with, I, I don't know if I've quite asked myself that question, but describing my path from coming from engineering, I have to say that it was the fact that these oysters are ecological engineers-

Kevin: Mm-hmm ...

Matt Sweeney: and that they, they do provide so many benefits that a fish might not. The oyster provides, structure, prevents coastal erosion to some degree. Right. It cleans up the water. The water quality thing really gets me because that's a lot of what I did. S- that's what got me into engineering, was doing water quality research back in my freshman year of college. I was a, you know, eager young buck, and I went to the professor who ran the lab, and I said, "Hey, I wanna do water quality research. What do you got?" And she thought to herself, "Certainly this crazy, uh, not even freshman, he hasn't even signed on to come to the school yet, wants to do research. Uh, great, welcome him in." So that water quality research really informed which classes I wanted to take, which internships I wanted to take. And then back in school, oysters started to have a renaissance in the popular culture. You started to hear about the Billion Oyster Project quite a bit.

And then people like Mark Kurlansky wrote his book, and the oyster thing was really taking off around here. So oysters have been on the mind for a long time, but I had to tell myself, "Ah, I gotta finish this degree program. I gotta go do engineering." You know, that's a, a serious thing, and it's, it's a money maker and all this. I really did wanna be an oyster farmer all the way back in, before freshman year of college. We used to go up to Maine when I was a kid, and we used to see these oyster farmers up there. That's the first oyster farmers I encountered were up in Maine, and oh man, these people were the best. I even... In fact, I met one guy, and he was formerly an environmental engineer. And this was when I was just entering environmental engineering school, and I was fascinated with the idea of transitioning water quality engineering to oyster farming. This was about a decade ago. So this oyster thing has been in my head for a while, but I never did think I would do it of, you know, more full-time as a career. I thought perhaps as a retiree. So that's where the oyster thing entered in.

And there's this idea of this ecosystem engineer, and then also the oyster aquaculture industry is booming here. There's quite a few farms that have popped up- Yeah. Yeah in the last decade. So that's why oyster, because the oyster aquaculture thing is huge here,

Kevin: It's almost like oysters were sort of an extension of what you were doing, and they were doing, some of the same sort of thing, just kind of a different plane, so I understand why that would interest you, and you'd wanna focus in on that. But tell me about the first time you stepped on an oyster farm, what did you see and feel? Like, how did you know that that was something that was going to be important to you?

Matt Sweeney: So the first time I stepped foot onto an oyster farm was late summer, early fall of last year, so not that long ago, quite frankly, uh, on Sue Wicks' farm. So I volunteered with her to go put, plant her kelp in the fall. So in the fall was when I first stepped foot onto her boat, and then into, her oyster farm. Um, pulling up to her house, her boat is right across from her house. So first thing you see, even before you get on the boat, is, you know, all these reeds, and in the reeds are all sorts of just oyster farming equipment in all different states of disrepair. So you have broken cages. 

Kevin: Typical oyster farm.

Matt Sweeney: Yes, and it was just so cool to see, like, the evidence of this industry, so to speak, Like here's a cage that looks all smooshed. Here's one that has half a float. Um, here are some dead oysters, and then, you know, seeing some of her oyster, bags, next to her boat. So just starting to think in my mind, like, "What is all this, equipment? What is all this architecture going on?" So, you know, get on her boat, and then the first time going out to her farm, uh, was such an excellent feeling for me because, you know, I'm out in the water. I can't believe my luck, that I'm gonna get, some experience doing work on the water. Uh, and, and just, speeding along, getting the cool mist in my face. And we go out early so, you know, kind of seeing the sun just come around, come over the horizon so incredible feeling. you know, a feeling of discovery, right? So very awe-inspiring for me to see that.

And trying to, take in the coast and try to figure out, you know, which town is that? And oh, that's a marina, look at that. Or, you know, hey, there's a buoy, what color is it? You know, what is it telling me? 'Cause I'd also just taken my boater safety certificate, so- Mm-hmm Okay, it's red, it means this. It's green, it means this. So trying to take all, in all those details at once, was exciting, definitely a, a physical reaction. And then actually getting to her farm, I didn't even know we were there, because all these cages are floating in the water. So there's maybe a buoy or two just marking the edges, but I was really surprised. I, I had no idea, how an oyster farm might look. I didn't know what it would look like. I th- This shows how much I knew about aquaculture, you know, I thought maybe she grew them on the ground outside of cages, on the, you know, sediment.  I had no idea that they were grown in cages. Um, I had no idea that, it was this much infrastructure on an oyster farm. I thought it was rather more simple than that. So coming across her farm, and then putting on my waders, jumping in, her her farm's actually quite shallow, so we just use waders to do all the maintenance and the harvest.

So just a very, a very primal experience to be, you know, in the mud, and also for me, feeling all the shellfish and all the debris under my feet, uh, was just thrilling to me because I'm like, "How much life is under my feet here?" You know, what am I, what am I stepping on? So finding these different shellfish on the bottom around her farm also told me, wow, this farm is the opposite of an extractive industry. It's really promoting biodiversity right around her farm. So those were all my first impressions.

Kevin: So do you remember a moment in time, where you suddenly realized that this was not just a part-time hobby, that this actually had, meaning, and this is something that you really wanted to dedicate yourself to? Tell me a little bit about that kind of epiphany.

Matt Sweeney: Definitely. Probably came after a few weeks of doing it. The first few weeks are just pure excitement, ... just being out on the water and doing work. Um, it came, a month or two in after I realized this is a lady here who does this, and makes money at this, and she started to introduce me to other people that are doing this sort of thing. That's the epiphany moment for me was like, I guess I thought, "Oh, here's this nice woman who's letting me come out on her farm and learn." But once she started to introduce me to other people, I said, "Oh, shoot, this is a real industry."

Kevin: For Matt, the realization wasn't simply that oyster farming existed. It was discovering that there was an entire community built around it. Farmers, scientists, chefs, engineers, educators, and entrepreneurs all connected by the same waters. What had started as curiosity was becoming something much larger, a place where his technical background, his love of writing, and his desire to make a tangible difference could finally intersect

Matt Sweeney: And then I joined Long Island Oyster Growers Association, and going to those sorts of events, I was able to see, oh, not just is this an industry that people are making a living at, it's a growing industry, and there's a lot of need for what I could bring to the table. Which is that technical expertise, that engineering background. So I realized from my own observations, but people also telling me through this Oyster Growers Association that, "Hey, this is the perfect time for someone like you to be here. We- we're having a lot of technology come in on these oyster farms. It's a real niche for you if you want it." So the, the, the moment for me was meeting other people doing it, and realizing what growth this industry is having and where exactly I could fit in on that curve. Right. That was exciting for me.

Kevin: Did you find that, your background in engineering is something that you felt was a synergistic connection with what you were seeing at an oyster farm?

Matt Sweeney: Absolutely. Pretty much all these farmers, They're all concerned about a better food system, And that was something I had noticed as an environmental engineer as well. We could build all these treatment plants, and we could put all this policy in place, but really, we need to change our relationship to the environment, and a large part of that is how we eat, and how we fertilize, Because in my former, career, or continuing career I should say, you know, fertilizing all these farms and all our lawns, it created a lot of excess nutrients that comes into the bays here. Yeah. And we have horrible algal blooms. Everyone does, all around the East Coast, the Gulf Coast, probably the West Coast too.

So, finding that these oyster farmers really know all about these issues was very exciting too. You know, Sue comes from, a super athlete background, not an engineering background, but hearing her know about these issues that I had cared about for years, which is, like, algal blooms, and, excess nutrients, coastal erosion. Hearing these words come out of, the mouth of somebody who wasn't an engineer, that was very exciting for me, seeing that- wow, It's all about, we're doing it because it's not extractive. It's giving back to the environment. So I did find that there was a strong synergy between water quality and, growing an oyster. Yeah. These people just have this knowledge about it.

Kevin: I love to see your ability to merge your vocation, that is environmental engineering, and the things that you described that are associated with that work, and this discovery that you had of aquaculture and the world there because there do seem to be some parallels in terms of environmental engineering between, the human world and the natural world. Do you think that aquaculture is something that will naturally attract more younger people involved in engineering and, technically trained people like that?

Matt Sweeney: I do. Because when I post on my Instagram or I write on my Substack about what I'm doing, I have a ton of my younger friends, um, which is to say all my friends. I'm young, too. All my friends my age, um, they're really interested. I mean, it's not even fake interest like, "Wow, Matt, we're your friends, so we're gonna tell you this is cool." It's really more like, how can I get involved?" Or-"Hey, do you make any money doing th- or does anyone make any money doing this?" So people are really thinking about, um, how do we get into aquaculture? And also, quite frankly, people are burned out, in the corporate space. They're looking for something that, um, their soul feels good about and they can make a few bucks at. Mm-hmm. And so I do see that a lot of people from the technical world are highly interested in how they could fit into aquaculture. And what I recommend when they come to me with that is, you know, go like I did and go to a farmer and ask if you could just volunteer to start with. Ask if they need a hand one day a week or something. You know, So there is a, a groundswell of young people super interested in aquaculture for all the reasons we talked about. People my age generally tend to really care about the environment, um, because we're gonna have to deal with all those nasty effects of climate change and also just over-industrialization and stuff. But also people wanna work with their hands again. I think the trades have seen a big resurgence, and I consider aquaculture a trade. Mm-hmm. It's, it's definitely working with your hands, you know. We're using all sorts of different materials on the farm. We've gotta cut, measure, weld, connect. Um, you know, it's a very physical type of job, so people are looking to do more with their hands and looking to help the environment, and aquaculture's a great space for that. For an engineer as well, I could help them site a farm. You know, I could conduct a survey of the, underwater bathymetry, you know, looking at the different elevations of the soil- I did soil sampling in one of my past gigs, so I could help them survey, 'cause this is something every farmer pretty much does. Before they site their farm, they want to figure out what site actually works because these towns have lease programs. So that's something a very technical person is set up to do. Um, and then how do you help them with the permitting process? And permitting was something I did as well.

Kevin: So that's very interesting, and I, I like how you are oriented toward people in your own kind of general age group.how old are you?

Matt Sweeney: 26 and a half.

Kevin: Man, you've come a long way in a very short period of time. so you're a Gen Z-er. Yes. And, do you feel that other Gen Z-ers are kind of joining the aquaculture conversation? Because I hear a lot of, older generations worrying about who's going to kind of backfill when they retire, and, that there needs to be more of a young movement that's rediscovering a working waterfront and being inspired by the natural aspects of oystering especially. Are you finding that's the case? is there really a new guard, as I like to describe it?

Matt Sweeney: There's been a slow trickle that's becoming more of a deluge of people coming in. I went up to the Boston Seafood Show back in March. and I can't tell you how many, uh, let's say under 30 folks that I met, under 40 even, that are new to the space. Maybe they had a former career and they're coming in then really, um, people even younger than me that have started as forehands. I met some, some wonderful people at the seafood show that are under 25 that grew up, um, on, around these farms and are working full-time in these farms. And then a lot of the folks here down in the city that I actually met up in, up in the seafood show in Boston, they're working more on the hospitality side on, you know, shucking. Um, and I would say that's because New York has this bustling culinary scene, that- is really the economic engine for aquaculture around here.

So I definitely think young people are coming into it. Because a lot of those farms are also, um, these people are aging out. They are retiring. So there's these opportunities to buy these farms now. Um, so I think there, there are some, a good amount of young people looking into this.

Kevin: Do you think that younger people in your generation, Gen Z-ers, are looking for kind of more meaningful work connected to something more natural, food systems, ocean systems, that sort of thing?

Matt Sweeney: Oh, God, yes. I think a lot of really talented folks are coming off the, hamster wheel, so to speak, of. At least young people feel that these days. The idea of a career is kind of out the window, and it's more like, you know, grab everything you can, hold onto a job. And for, for young people, that's not great because they're like, "Well, you know, I don't have children, I don't have a family. Um, you know, I don't have all these big bills. Why am I, uh, sort of all stressed out all the time without this payoff of saying this is fulfilling," right? If you're gonna be really, um, working hard, you at least want to say, "I produce something I'm proud of." And it becomes harder and harder in, in the purely digital space that business pretty much takes place in these days. So totally, people my age are, tired of it, and so I think a lot of people are saying, you know, "What's next?" Uh, at a younger age than maybe people in the past used to, for all the reasons we just said. So I know plenty of people that talk to me regularly about, um,

"I want to start a side business because it's something I, uh, provides me meaning in life." And well, also there's this whole societal change going on where communities have sort of been extracted from, and people are looking for community again. My age are looking for community to meet like-minded people. And aquaculture is a phenomenal community first and foremost. You know, all these people may technically be competitors, right? They all have these different oysters they want to sell, but they come together on issues, you know. In Long Island, they're trying to come together for the branding purposes because Long Island used to have this wonderful oyster, industry and then it really had, its legs knocked out from under it from pollution, overfishing, this sort of thing.

The Blue Point oyster, right, that's a Long Island thing, and it kind of got lost in the last several decades, half century, just because the oyster output here just crashed. Um, people left, went into other industries. So Long Island oyster growers are trying to bring back the Long Island oyster as a premium product

Kevin: So the oyster is helping to create this community, it brings them together in the way you're describing, um, I think a lot of that has to do with communication and that's one of the things that I find interesting about you. You know, you have dived headfirst into the aquaculture world.

Matt Sweeney: Yeah.

Kevin: But in addition to that, you have recently decided to share that enthusiasm and share that through communication. You started a, Substack called Sweeney's Brine, as I understand  it.

Matt Sweeney:Yep.

Kevin: Tell me a little bit about what Sweeney's Brine is, and also what inspired you to start that?

Matt Sweeney: Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Well, really quick, going back to when I was young, I just loved English. I loved the word and the written language, and I always enjoyed writing in school, um, fiction, nonfiction, whatever. I enjoyed structuring writing to convey some sort of message to hook a reader. Always loved doing that. I was on the school newspaper in college a little bit. I was in the school newspaper in high school. But then when I left all that, that kinda all fell away. There's no school newspaper equivalent in the corporate world. I mean, you could write a newsletter internally, I guess, um, which I kinda did a little bit of. But I hadn't done something that was I'm gonna publish every week or two or three, and have a message I hadn't done that ever. I had never had my own publication. So I always wanted to write. I wanted to carry that forward with me, and I had read other people's work on Substack for a while, Seemed to me a serious place, where writers could write and be appreciated. It wasn't purely a social media platform It was really some place you could lay out your thoughts and really think.

Um, and so that's why I really kinda have been attracted to Substack specifically. And then why I wanted to write about what I'm doing is because, quite frankly, so many people are asking, "Oh, you're on career break. What are you up to?" Or, "What's your plans for the future?" And I hadn't really had a clue what that was gonna look like, but I figured, why don't I start writing as a way to communicate to people what I'm up to, the value of what I'm doing, and for me to document this journey. So I wanted to do all those things, and I named it Sweeney's Brine because I said, I want this to be catchy. A lot of people do call me by my last name, uh, Sweeney Uh, people like the sound of it apparently. It's kind of a tradition. My dad, my uncle, people just in our lives use our last name. So that's why I said Sweeney's Brine. And then the Brine because I wanted it to be broad enough to cover anything within the maritime space, while also telling people this is about saltwater. So Sweeney's Brine. 

And what I'm trying to cover with it, I call it, your lens into New York seafood and beyond, because I have so many environmental experiences that I want to integrate. But seafood is this nice inroad to talking about environmental principles, because I say to people, "You like that bay scallop? Well, here's what goes into the life cycle, and here's the water quality you need to grow a bay scallop." so I try to connect this, 'cause I was really seeing, Kevin, that- the connection between the aquaculture farmer and the culinary world is not, as, as strong as I'd like it to be. A lot of these farmers sell to a wholesaler, who then sells to maybe another wholesaler, who then sells to a chef maybe or a conglomerate. So this direct farmer-to-chef connection, it's out there, but it's not the industry norm. And to me, it's a big problem because these wholesalers, because they're running a business, don't give the farmers the best price. They give them a, you know, a lower price than they could sell direct to chef.

Matt Sweeney: And it's just the way that, you know, the economy works But to me, connecting the chefs directly to the farmers, it really became something I saw as a market of its own. Mm-hmm. A lot of these chefs are always being pushed to do the next thing. They're... You know, come up with something new, something that's gonna bring people in. So to me, the aquaculture space offers this great opportunity for products that are for locavores, products for environmentally conscious people, products for, for vegetarians and, and for vegans.

Kevin: So okay, The inspiration and the reason why you wanna write these stories, I think you've described that very well. How would you describe your target audience, and why is that the audience that you wanna focus in on?

Matt Sweeney: The target audience are for people like my parents, and my friends who aren't in aquaculture, How do I eat more locally, more environmentally sustainable? How do I eat healthier? That's the audience I was trying to go for. So trying to educate people who, not necessarily people that are involved in aquaculture, that just don't have the time to be doing what I'm doing. But has this buying power as well that they can have a really positive impact on, hey, maybe I'm gonna buy from a local fishmonger. Just kinda tweaking those, those tastes and habits a little bit to put some of that money back into local hands because these local farmers, and fishermen They, need a lot more attention put on them, quite frankly. So trying to target, these people who don't have the time to, to do what I'm doing, and wanna eat better and, you know, Kevin, there's a species of shrimp that lives off Long Island, um, people locally call it the Montauk red. Mm-hmm. Similar to the royal red shrimp from the Gulf. But I'd never had this shrimp before a couple months ago. I had no idea that we had a shrimp that was local that was really, like, good and edible, and, uh, I didn't know it was locally available. and it actually is a undervalued product because people don't know it exists, But when I tell you this is, like, the best shrimp I've ever had, I mean it. But that's what I'm trying to do with this substack, is teach people what is your local product, um, what can you do with it. Ultimately what I would love to do, um, entrepreneurially speaking, is bring some of these East End farming products or fisheries products closer to home and, and make that part of the substack. Like, you know, this week we have these red shrimp in, and here's the story of the fisherman that brought them in, and here's what you can do with them. So just trying to teach people about what their local waters are. And I'll tell you- Everybody has approached me pretty much saying, "I had no clue this was so close to New York City."

Kevin: You kind of have ambitions in many different directions that are all centrally, anchored in seafood, aquaculture, and environmental stewardship. it's very exciting to hear your enthusiasm extending in so many different directions, and I love how you're bringing it all together and that's how I would describe the mission that you've kind of explained.

And in addition to that, you've either already been recognized or you have put yourself in a position to become recognized with the Explorer's Club in New York, and I'd like you to tell me a little bit about your involvement with the Explorer's Club and the Blue Generation program.

Matt Sweeney: Oh, sure. That's super exciting. I'd grown up, knowing what the Explorer's Club was, being the young historian, environmental guy that I was. You know, people like Theodore Roosevelt or Jane Goodall or Jacques Cousteau all associated or membership and Sure the idea of exploration is just something that's so exciting,

So the Explorers Club had been something that I'd known about for a while. But how this Blue Generation program came up was that I, I discovered that the Explorers Club had this wonderful program. called the Next Generation program, which is to bring in young explorers and connect them with people that run things like the Earthshot Prize and all these different funding sources for young adventurers, young explorers, young scientists. And now, This Blue Generation program is under that Next Generation umbrella specifically for people working on ocean issues and ocean exploration and ocean awareness. So I applied. Uh, did not expect to get it since I'm so new, to the aquaculture space, but they accepted me in. we're gonna be at the Explorers Club. Their headquarters is in Manhattan. and the inside of their Manhattan headquarters is like… I grew up on Long Island, right? There's the Sagamore Hill, which is Theodore Roosevelt's home. It looks like that, you know, it's got, these crazy, mounts from, African wild safari hunts, and it's just what you'd expect from a place called the Explorers Club. It's jam-packed with, some of the great minds in today of, the environment, the ocean conservation. and you're basically put together with a cohort. and we're gonna be going to all these discussions.

 We're actually gonna have to go up and present in front of the Empl- Explorers Club membership about who we are and what our interests are and give our pitch, and that's very exciting because you're getting exposed to the movers and shakers in the conservation movement. Um, and there's some field trips involved. We're actually-- We just heard that we're gonna be going to the City Island oyster reef, which is very exciting. They have an oyster reef, a restoration reef that they've been, growing out for the last few years, But this is, where aquaculture's fitting right into this program.

Kevin: Absolutely, and it's quite an honor and very exclusive and very difficult to get accepted, so congratulations on that. That's exciting. Do you think that aquaculture, and maybe oysters specifically, are part of the definition of new exploration? I mean, it's not exploring places uncharted, but it is a new world that people are entering, What's your thought on that?

Matt Sweeney: You're entirely right because I had to think through, how does this, connect to adventure and exploration? And really, what is exploration at the end of the day? We're pushing the boundaries of our current confines as a society, that is science, and that is exploration, And so redefining the food system and educating folks on new kinds of ways of eating and new products, that's entirely a new frontier. Um- Yeah ... and the ocean is really the final frontier, on Earth. there's so much of it that's unexplored. So to me, that's the great frontier in aquaculture right now.

Kevin: I wanna ask you a few questions, and get your off-the-cuff impressions of them. Sure. if there was, one thing that you could change about the American seafood culture today-

Matt Sweeney: Mm-hmm

Kevin: what would that be?

Matt Sweeney: Hmm. I would love for people to, have some more guts and courage when it comes to trying s- new seafoods because people are so put off by, "Oh, I don't like the smell of that," or, "I don't... That's a slimy-looking fish," right? Like, I wish we'd grow up in a way. I wish we'd be adults about seafood. Seems like a lot of adults have a children's palate when it comes to seafood.

Kevin: In the world of aquaculture as you know it thus far, what gives you the most amount of hope and, enthusiasm and excitement going forward for the future?

Matt Sweeney: I really enjoy seeing how open these farmers have been to having me out to their farms to teach me about not just their successes but also their failures. They're, they're a very open group of people. That's given me a lot of hope because it shows me that if people want to do this, there's a lot of people there to support them.I find that to be sort of rare in the adult world. I think a lot of people want to kind of cover up for maybe some things that didn't work out so well. I find oyster farmers, and aquaculturists, and fishermen, and fisherwomen to just be very straightforward, and that's very refreshing for me

Kevin: What worries you the most?

Matt Sweeney: Regulation, because-- when it comes to aquaculture, it's very difficult to, get a venture going. With the environmental movement and sort of the challenges of climate change, I think we need people to... If they have an interest, let's match them up with an opportunity. I don't wanna hear that they take three years to get permitted for a farm, and the whole time they're paying the lease money and they have equipment sitting.That's my concern.

Kevin: Where do you hope or envision your own work in this whole area going, and where do you think you'll be in, say, the next five years?

Matt Sweeney: Fantastic. Well,  I'd like to see more kelp farms. I'd like to see more seaweed cultivated. I'd like to be part of that. I'm working with Town of Hempstead. They're piloting an aquaculture license program. They've done a feasibility study on it, so I'm working with the local officials, our council people, and our local politicians to try and get a pilot, program going, just a few licenses to show that it can work here. so kinda working on the political process of that. So that's a challenge, I think, is how do we integrate aquaculture with wild harvest? How do we make them more friendly to each other rather than adversarial?

So in five years, I would love to see kids learning more about aquaculture, wild harvest seafood. When I went to school, no one talked about that. You know- Mm ... we're having popcorn shrimp for lunch. That's the extent of the seafood education. Um, New York City's doing it. They have... The Billion Oyster Project puts out a wonderful curriculum on oyster education and marine education. Um, and that curriculum could totally be applied out here. I'd love to help be a part of that,

Kevin: And, I can tell just by talking to you and hearing the energy that you have for these things that you're gonna play some important role in more than just one of these, areas that you've described. 

If there's one oyster experience that you believe everybody should have at least once, what would that be? 

Matt Sweeney: If possible, having an oyster straight out of the water on a farm, on a boat with the farmer. Having it shucked right in front of you. Maybe you shuck it, maybe the farmer does. just a fresh raw oyster right out of the water. that experience can't be beat.

Kevin: What is it about that experience that makes it so special? tell me why that matters to you.

Matt Sweeney: Absolutely. You're with the person that put all their energy and effort into this. You're buying from a small business owner. The appreciation they have for you appreciating their hard work, that synergy is felt on a human level. That's incredible. You're never gonna have a fresher piece of food in general than an oyster plucked right from the farm. There's no processing involved, You're tasting the local water in all sorts of good ways. You're tasting the slight vegetal nature of whatever algae is growing there. you're tasting literally the salinity level, So the flavor can't be beat, the connection to the farmer, and I really think it does something for us, Kevin, being so removed from an industrial food system. It's One of the original forms of food. It's such a throwback, kind of food system, and I think that's... I think our bodies respond positively to that, too.

Kevin: Tell me about your first oyster experience.

Matt Sweeney: Yes. Definitely during COVID. Uh, before that, I think I was too much of a wuss to try one raw. Um, I think it, it has a lot to do with my mom, as I said. She's-- works in public health, so the scare of foodborne illness was strong. Um, I think I blew her mind. But the first raw oyster was definitely during COVID. I, you know, I had screwed up the shucking of it. Um, I think I stabbed myself, not too bad, but, you know, I got all the flake of the shell in it. I, like, didn't know where the abductor muscle was, but that first experience was, this is delicious. This is not slimy, how a lot of people think it is without having tried it. It's basically like eating seawater with a side of delicious protein. And then, you know, also, I was like, oh, I also didn't get sick. So it was relief. It was relief- Right ... and delight at saying, "Wow, this is a natural product that not only did it not get me sick as I've been led to believe, it's freaking delicious."

Kevin: If someone your age or another fellow Gen Z-er is listening to this, and they are thinking about entering the oyster world, what advice would you tell them?

Matt Sweeney: I would say definitely if you want to go straight into marine science in school, do that. But that is not what you have to do to get into the industry. You could have any degree or any background to get into this. I would say the most important thing to do is reach out to a farmer and see if they need a hand. They almost always do. So get your waders and boots in the mud and just start getting experience with it. I think that'll tell you everything.

 so if you're thinking about trying it out, maybe don't leave your job just yet, but start by volunteering on a Saturday and get that connection going with that farmer, and be very honest with yourself, too. Do you want to be a farmer, or do you just want to, you know, enjoy the product, so just get out there. Get some experience. People are very open in aquaculture to having you come out.

Kevin: That's great advice. Well, Matt, I have to tell you, the thing that's really exciting to me about what you're doing is that You're one of the new people who are just getting into it. And there's this world much of which you haven't actually seen yet, that is about to unfold before you and give you so much energy and opportunity. And the people that you're going to meet, as you go around doing the things you've described today, is gonna open a world to you. because you are the new guard, and you're gonna make a difference. So congratulations on everything you've done. I know our paths are gonna cross many times as you get more involved, And thank you for being my guest on OYSTER-ology.

Matt Sweeney: I appreciate that, Kevin. It's great putting it all together in one space for me to hear too.

Kevin: Well, that's it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks so much to my guest, Matt Sweeney. One of the things I've learned from producing this podcast is that oysters are rarely just about oysters. They're about people. They're about places and community. And sometimes they're about those unexpected moments in life when a new path quietly appears.

When Matt and I recorded this conversation, he described himself as being on a career break. Maybe years from now, he'll return to engineering. Maybe he'll devote himself entirely to oysters, kelp, and the blue economy. Or maybe he'll find a way to weave those two worlds together in ways neither he nor any of us can yet imagine.

The truth is, he doesn't know, and that's what I found so refreshing about this conversation. Here is somebody willing to step away from certainty, pull on a pair of waders, volunteer on a small farm, and simply see where curiosity might lead. Whether that journey ultimately ends in engineering, aquaculture, or somewhere in between almost feels beside the point, because sometimes the most important thing isn't knowing exactly where you're going. It's having the courage to follow a path that feels meaningful enough to find out. I do have a feeling we'll be hearing more from Matt Sweeney in years ahead, and if we do, I hope you'll remember that you first met him here, not as an expert looking back on a career, but as someone standing at a crossroads just beginning to imagine what might be possible. Because this isn't the end of Matt's story. This is just the beginning.

Links to some of the things mentioned by Matt are given in the show notes for this episode, so check them out if you have a minute. If you enjoyed the episode, please be sure to follow the show and share it with a friend. And send me a comment about what it was like at your own crossroads that led you to look across the water or shuck an oyster and think, "Yeah, I could be part of this world." I'd love to hear your story. Or as Matt might advise:

Matt Sweeney: …Get your waders and boots in the mud…  I think that'll tell you everything.

Kevin: Thanks so much for listening to OYSTER-ology. Please be sure to join me again next time when I pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.

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